Talk:2024

Artemis 2

I think NASA is launching Artemis 2 in May 2024, is that event significant enough to be put on this page? InjectableBacon (talk) 18:13, 13 December 2022 (UTC)

Actually it's been pushed back to November. But should definitely be included if/when the mission happens. It'll be the closest humans have come to the Moon since the early 1970s. Wjfox2005 (talk) 08:21, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Agreed. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 00:52, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

It's also been pushed back to 2025, so maybe on that page? (also artemis iii should go on the 2026 page) 2600:8802:3A0B:3000:2CCD:AD72:18E2:C2B9 (talk) 23:19, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Jueni 61.5.28.69 (talk) 22:27, 4 October 2024 (UTC)

2023 AFC Asian Cup

The tournament will start on January 19, 2024. Shouldn't we add this? Aminabzz (talk) 09:15, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

No, it is a regional sporting event. It is the same reason we don't add the superbowl or the NBA finals. PaulRKil (talk) 17:32, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

سالطان 134.35.134.39 (talk) 17:43, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

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سالطان 20242 134.35.134.39 (talk) 17:47, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Should the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse be included? I oppose inclusion.

I keep removing it and someone keeps adding the entry back.

I oppose inclusion because the casualty toll is low, it is a domestic transportation disaster in the United States, and has not caused major disruption to the U.S. or global economy compared to say the 2021 Suez Canal obstruction.

The entry is:

• March 26 – A container ship collides with the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, United States, causing a total collapse of the bridge and the deaths of six people.

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 15:58, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

• I tentatively think include this entry. I agree that the casualty count is low and it is a domestic event, but the large amount of media coverage combined with the uniqueness of the event (a boat doesn't collide into a bridge and completely destroy it every day) outweighs the concerns I may have. Yeoutie (talk) 16:23, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Include. I have never seen so much media coverage on a single event since the terrorists attacked Israel. 30,000 people crossed that bridge every day before collapse. DementiaGaming (talk) 00:23, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Include. For the reasons already stated by Yeoutie and DementiaGaming. Wjfox2005 (talk) 18:57, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose not international notable. Domestic tragedy. _-_Alsor (talk) 22:02, 29 March 2024 (UTC)

Include. Major impact on the world economy. With all due respect, all the "domestic" arguments have been refuted and RFC'd out of oblivion – they're utterly worthless and irrelevant now. I would encourage all the "domestic" arguers to find a better reason to exclude entries. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 20:23, 24 April 2024 (UTC)

What has been the "impact on the world economy"? I seriously ask why the major newspapers have not reported an "impact on the world economy" such as the pandemic, the invasion of Ukraine or the conflict in the Red Sea (and not the collapse of a bridge). _-_Alsor (talk) 20:23, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

See WP:DUE. I'm afraid to say (albeit a bit late) that we are governed by WP Policy, and not the deprecated International Notability standard. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 02:41, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

Does Trump's conviction in New York merit an entry?

I'm unsure, but leaning towards exclude because it's a domestic political event that mainly applies to the United States--it certainly belongs in 2024 in the United States--but isn't particularly important outside of the United States. I don't think pages about years have previously featured former heads of state being prosecuted, though I could be wrong.

• May 30 – Former United States President Donald Trump is found guilty on 34 counts in regards to his hush money trial, the first time any American president (sitting or former) has been found guilty of a crime. He faces up to four years in prison.

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 03:25, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Strong include. For God's sake. This is a highly notable trial. Massive, global attention and undoubtedly one of the defining moments of 2024. I think it's ludicrous to suggest this "isn't particularly important outside of the United States", when the U.S. President is literally the most powerful and influential person on the entire planet, and this guy possibly still has a chance at a 2nd term. Wjfox2005 (talk) 07:56, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

weak exclusion in the Trump ecosystem is yet another conviction in yet another court case. It is a relevant event because it concerns a former US president, but it is a local one, with no (for now) remarkable long-term impact (legislative changes, real influence on the November elections, protests in the streets...), but it is certainly not “one of the defining moments of 2024”. In fact it is the conviction for a business crime, and it would be more notorious if it were a crime related to presidential or post-presidential political activity (rebellion, sedition, large-scale corruption, war crimes...). I have my doubts. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:40, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

Include - This is a very important (and historic) event, The First U.S President (former or sitting) to have been convicted of a crime. InterDoesWiki (talk) 15:09, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

This is only really notable in the US. Lots of presidents and leaders of other countries have been convicted of crimes. Ultimately this trial has so far no global significance. Di (they-them) (talk) 00:21, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

That's just nonsense. It is of global interest. The United States is the most powerful and influential country on earth, and its President is the most powerful and influential world leader. Trump's status as a felon means that he is now technically barred from travelling to dozens of countries. This trial and Trump's ongoing legal problems have received extensive coverage by every major media outlet around the world, easily enough to meet the notability threshold. Wjfox2005 (talk) 08:02, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

I recommend you to learn more about other countries and take a look at their press. _-_Alsor (talk) 17:34, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Weak include since he is a major candidate and certainly the GOP nominee along with being a former president. Exclude the sentence regarding potential jail-time. I think it is too sensationalistic to keep in there and without sounding too crystal ball, pretty much every legal expert thinks he won't spend a day in prison. PaulRKil (talk) 12:18, 4 June 2024 (UTC)

Exclude Ultimately this case has yet to have any impact outside of the United States, or even within it. We have no idea if this will have any effects on his run for presidency, and it's a domestic issue with a scope limited to American politics. I seriously doubt it qualifies as a global event. He isn't the only national leader to be convicted of crimes, and the fact that he was convicted of a business crime unrelated to his political career makes this ultimately unremarkable from a global perspective. Di (they-them) (talk) 01:54, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Include per the due weight policy. This is worldwide covered news. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 14:54, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Exclude per comments by Di. Yeoutie (talk) 18:29, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Does Trump v. United States (2024) merit an entry? I'm opposed.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I'm opposed, the United States is not the only country in the world and this entry is Americentric. We haven't included many important legal cases, like the South African case against Israel in the World Court for example. The legal process for that case is still playing out. For 2022, we didn't include the Dobbs decision, which was also landmark if not more so than Trump v. United States (2024).

This is the entry:

• • In the Trump v. United States (2024) case, the Supreme Court of the United States rules that ex-Presidents have broad immunity from any prosecution for "official acts".

JohnAdams1800 (talk) 02:36, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

The United States is not the only country in the world, but it is a country of major importance that can affect a lot of the world, and I don't see that it has a monopoly on this year which includes a lot of events from numerous countries. Considering this was a very unusual and strange ruling from the Supreme Court, granting broad absolute immunity for "official acts", I support including it. One way or another, it will affect a lot of behavior of future American Presidents. We can't just have generic chronology of elections per country, politicians being sworn in or summits. Major events, milestones and changes should be noted, as is this one.--3E1I5S8B9RF7 (talk) 15:54, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Strong exclude the immunity of a U.S. president has already been the subject of previous SCOTUS rulings, so it is not a case that will influence the behaviors of future POTUS "a lot". And yes, the US is an important and influential country, but it does NOT mean that any news about this country has to have special notability. And no, this is not the case. The immunity of the head of state is a subject of treaty in Constitutions of countries older than this one, in constitutional debates of other countries, so any decision about the immunity of a head of state, whatever it is, should not have an entry in Year in topic. _-_Alsor (talk) 21:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Which previous SCOTUS rulings are you referring to? CNN published an article that the ruling practically gave the president "superpowers" [1], The Guardian that the constitution was shredded [2], Al Jazeera that it will "transform the United States government" and that the decision "may undermine the rule of law in the country" [3], The Hill that the president is now practically a King [4], The Nation wrote "The President Can Now Assassinate You, Officially" [5], etc. No, this is not an ordinary or routine SCOTUS ruling. This is a major change that now puts even impeaching a president into doubt. It will change the behavior of future US presidents, who now know they have broad immunity, and therefore this event merits inclusion, absolutely.--3E1I5S8B9RF7 (talk) 14:01, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

This entry has a superb and legitimate place, from what you explain, in 2024 in the United States. Neither international relations nor the rest of the countries in the world are going to change. And it is important not to get carried away by the often biased headlines in the press, although I thank you for the work of looking for various journalistic sources. Btw, take a look at Nixon v. Fitzgerald. _-_Alsor (talk) 17:50, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

May I remind you that DUE decides what gets included and not the old International Notability standard? That has been firmly decided before through sitewide RFCs, discussions which we have made you well aware of before on WP:YEARS. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 16:14, 22 July 2024 (UTC)

See 2024 in the United States. Thanks. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:13, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

So what? Yes we have a US page. We have pages for every country. But this is an event that has been widely covered around the world. You seem to neglect any sense coverage even though it is the very thing that defines our DUE Weight policy. There is much more due weight as determined by policy for this event than other US events, so it belongs on the main year page. I feel compelled to remind you get again that the old standards are dead, and until a new consensus in favor of them develops on a site-wide RFC, they will stay dead. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 18:12, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

It is still my opinion and I will continue to express it in this way. You will realize, sooner or later, that wide coverage does not always mean importance. You will also realize that Year in Topic is not ITN or Current Events and that Wikipedia is not a news portal, so the way you value events must be different (encyclopedic view). Anyway, you are a US national so I don't demand that you have a global or objective position (and even if it is unprofessional, it is totally legitimate and respectable). _-_Alsor (talk) 20:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

"wide coverage does not always mean importance" - it's how we decide things on Wikipedia to be important per WP:DUE, which states that "all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in those sources", with an added EFN stating "The relative prominence of each viewpoint among Wikipedia editors or the general public is irrelevant and should not be considered". It's policy and a core component of NPOV for us to reflect, not judge for ourselves, what is considered important. If you want to change policy, go through VPPR. You don't do it here. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 18:30, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Include, for the reasons given by 3E1I5S8B9RF7. Wjfox2005 (talk) 17:46, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Include, as I would concur wit 3E1I5S8B9RF7. And I think that Dobbs should be rediscussed for 2022. I see much of the Americentrism arguments as anti-Americanism, an even more flagrant violation of NPOV compared to the false balance being argued wrongly that exists on the page (The US is the most powerful country in the world and its politics widely affect the globe as a whole, so per the due weight policy more weight should be given to the US), and I'm extremely concerned that more exclude votes would effectively bring back the old deprecated International Notability system, which was squashed at an ANI discussion that led to a TBAN whose target instigated a series of sockpuppets in an attempt to bring back the deprecated standard. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 22:19, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Exclude. While important in the American legal system for sure, this disappeared from international headlines (if it ever was in them) after a day and is such a minor event internationally. Belongs in 2024 in the United States. Yeoutie (talk) 18:28, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

See WP:DUE. We include based on coverage and importance as perceived by others, not us. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 19:55, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Does Biden's withdrawal from the 2024 U.S. presidential election merit an entry? I support inclusion.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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I added the entry after it was featured in ITN, and support inclusion. There is a case for its exclusion, because it's Americentric, but I believe it merits inclusion for making international headlines (like Trump's conviction and assassination attempt) and Biden being the first president to withdraw after the primaries but before the convention. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 23:39, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

exclude domestic politics, just another political drama. This is not ITN nor Portal: Current Events. Please use 2024 in the United States. _-_Alsor (talk) 11:09, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Include It is similar, in my opinion, to when we add constitutional monarchs announcing their eventual abdication as we’ve done in the past. To me, Biden is doing the same by deciding to suspend his campaign with the caveat that Biden has far more power and significance in his office than any constitutional monarch. PaulRKil (talk) 18:18, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

cannot be the same because Biden has not resigned. He is still president of the United States. _-_Alsor (talk) 15:22, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Include. Major news, about a major political figure. Wall-to-wall coverage on TV, online, etc. Wjfox2005 (talk) 09:15, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

• Include. As stated before, just because a measure is a domestic event does not mean it should not be included, as we use DUE Weight by coverage instead per WP:DUE. We have dismissed International Notability before. Go start a new RFC on VPPR if you want to bring it back. We don't need more bludgeoning after the April 2023 ANI fiasco. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 15:19, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

Weak include. I agree that such a domestic political situation shouldn't normally be included, but the widespread international coverage on this topic warrants inclusion. Yeoutie (talk) 18:24, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Dark oxygen

I think it's an important to add about the discovery of Dark oxygen on 22 july, that's huge scientific discovery 23.91.239.201 (talk) 22:55, 25 July 2024 (UTC)

It can go in 2024 in science. Most scientific discoveries aren't mentioned on this article itself. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 13:58, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

Interesting discovery, but I just don't think it's groundbreaking enough for 2024. Though I'd have zero problem with inclusion on 2024 in science. Wjfox2005 (talk) 14:11, 26 July 2024 (UTC)

The Move Forward Party Entry

We currently have this event listed in August: August 7 – The Move Forward Party is dissolved and Pita Limjaroenrat, alongside other senior politicians from the party, are banned from politics by the Constitutional Court of Thailand.

Should this be here? I think it's more of a domestic event that really isn't related to any larger event. I'd say it would be notable if it caused larger event like civil unrest but I don't think that has occurred and is therefore more suitable for 2024 in Thailand. PaulRKil (talk) 13:58, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Weak support because the MFP (Move Forward Party) won the most votes in the 2023 Thai general election but was blocked by the Thailand-military dominated Senate from joining a ruling coalition and confirming Pita Limjaroenrat as prime minister of Thailand. This was because the MFP proposed amending Thailand's strict lese majeste laws, which got the party dissolved.

If there is a consensus to exclude, that's fine. I opposed the entry for ITN because Pita Limjaroenrat wasn't an incumbent head of government/state, but thought it was worth mentioning in 2024. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 15:34, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

Include. This was a major political party, which drew international attention as it challenged the older, established military/royalist structures in Thailand. Its dissolution is notable in terms of Southeast Asian politics and democracy in the region. Wjfox2005 (talk) 15:42, 13 August 2024 (UTC)

2024 collage

As we head towards the end of the year, these are suggestions for the 2024 collage:

• 2024 Noto earthquake;
• Death and state funeral of Sebastián Piñera;
• Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse;
• Solar eclipse of April 8, 2024;
• 2024 Persian Gulf floods;
• 2024 Rio Grande do Sul floods;
• 2024 Varzaqan helicopter crash;
• 2024 Bangladesh quota reform movement or Non-cooperation movement (2024);
• 2024 Summer Olympics;
• 2024 Russian prisoner exchange;
• 2024 United States presidential election
• …

ArionStar (talk) 03:53, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

Time has reached September 16, and in my opinion, the 2024 Noto earthquake now has a strong competitor: Typhoon Yagi. So far, it has caused at least 881 deaths, 1,314 missing persons, and $14 billion in damage across 6 (and possibly 8) Asian countries. Its international impact is far greater than that of the Noto earthquake. The post-disaster assessment is still ongoing, and given that at least 1,314 people are missing, the future death toll is highly likely to exceed 1,000, and possibly even 2,000. Economic losses are also still being calculated; the current $14 billion loss could soon catch up to the Noto earthquake's $17.6 billion damage. Overall, I believe Typhoon Yagi is a more significant event than the Noto earthquake. Nagae Iku (talk) 17:22, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Just now, the casualty figures have been updated again, with as many as 10,064 people possibly missing. If these missing persons are ultimately declared dead, I really can't think of any reason to oppose a tropical cyclone that has caused tens of thousands of deaths being included in the 2024 collage. Nagae Iku (talk) 17:40, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

I just did this collage. What about it? ArionStar (talk) 21:16, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I removed it. There is no consensus yet, and collages should not be added until the end of the year. DementiaGaming (talk) 23:28, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

I also had some ideas of my own, including the Prosecution of Donald Trump in New York and his more recent assassination attempt. Also, we should obviously include an image of the continuing Israel-Hamas war. It is impossible to ignore; there have been so many events related to it, including the Flour massacre, the Rafah offensive, and the spillover including events such as the 2024 Iran-Israel conflict, the 2024 missile strikes in Yemen, and the protests on university campuses. I also believe the Crocus City Hall attack is worthy enough to be included. DementiaGaming (talk) 23:34, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

About Trump, we can expect, if he wins the presidential election, there would be just a only picture of his possible victory mentioning his assassination attempt in the caption; the Crocus attack is a good replacement for the prisoner exchange. ArionStar (talk) 23:52, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

We can add the Middle East event since the collage is currently supersaturated by American ones. ArionStar (talk) 23:59, 18 August 2024 (UTC)

@DementiaGaming: a new version uploaded. ArionStar (talk) 00:18, 19 August 2024 (UTC)

Support including the winner of the 2024 United States presidential election, which I presume the American flag is a placeholder for. The winner will make history--just to start, Trump will be the second non-consecutive president, Harris will be the first female president. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 01:55, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

Support Inclusion of the 2024 Winner - my reasons are the same as Adams' above. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 14:36, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Yep. I support this too. This is definitely the latest in a series of American elections that should have been included in the collages. DementiaGaming (talk) 14:53, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Comment in my opinion many of these entries are superfluous, and I think I would keep the helicopter crash that killed the president of Iran, the summer Olympics, the earthquake in Japan, the demonstrations in Bangladesh and perhaps the prisoner exchange and the floods in Brazil. The rest was notorious in the press, but without long impact for the rest of the year and for practical purposes: US elections are every 4 years and are always held ordinarily (we can open the debate if Harris becomes the first woman president. The election of Trump again would not be noticeable in that sense because it is no longer surprising); the collapse of the Francis Scott Key bridge did not have a noticeable continental, regional or global economic impact; the death of Piñera in an accident was very unfortunate, but he was no longer president of Chile.

I believe that the enlargement of BRICS, the attempted coup in Bolivia, the abdication of the Queen of Denmark, the integration of Sweden into NATO, the attack on Crocus City Hall, the enlargement of the Schengen Area, the Ecuador-Mexico crisis and the attempted assassination of a European head of government deserve more attention. _-_Alsor (talk) 14:50, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

@Alsoriano97: this is the caption:

Clockwise, from top left: Supreme Leader of Iran Ali Khamenei leading the funeral for the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps soldiers killed in a Israeli airstrike on the Iranian consulate in Damascus; protesters cheering in front of the Bangladeshi prime minister's office after Sheikh Hasina's resignation during the non-cooperation movement; multiple blue screens of death caused by a worldwide faulty CrowdStrike software update on baggage carousels at LaGuardia Airport, New York City; the 2024 United States presidential election is scheduled to be held on November 5; aftermath of a 7.5 magnitude earthquake that struck the Noto Peninsula in Japan, killed at least 339 people and injured 1,327 others; the 2024 Summer Olympics are held in Paris, France; people are seen as they watch the total solar eclipse of April 8, 2024 through protective glasses at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in Indiana; Krasnogorsk's Crocus City Hall auditorium after a attack that caused 145 deaths and injured 551, in the deadliest terrorist attack on Russian soil since the Beslan school siege in 2004.

It seems balanced enough, IMO. ArionStar (talk) 23:54, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Update:

Clockwise, from top left: Supreme Leader of Iran Ali Khamenei leading the funeral prayer for Ismail Haniyeh, the political leader of Hamas, who was assassinated along with his personal bodyguard in Tehran by an apparent Israeli attack; protesters cheering in front of the Bangladeshi prime minister's office after Sheikh Hasina's resignation during the non-cooperation movement; multiple blue screens of death caused by a worldwide faulty CrowdStrike software update on baggage carousels at LaGuardia Airport, New York City; the 2024 United States presidential election is scheduled to be held on November 5; aftermath of a 7.5 magnitude earthquake that struck the Noto Peninsula in Japan, caused at least 376 deaths and injured 1,335 others; the 2024 Summer Olympics are held in Paris, France; people are seen as they watch the total solar eclipse of April 8, 2024 through protective glasses at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in Indiana; Krasnogorsk's Crocus City Hall auditorium after a attack that killed 145 people and injured 551, in the deadliest terrorist attack on Russian soil since the Beslan school siege in 2004. ArionStar (talk) 22:56, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

Should a Ban of Twitter in Brazil entry be included?

ArionStar (talk) 15:18, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

YES something must be added on September Superyassi362 (talk) 10:58, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Support because it received international coverage, and Elon Musk is an international public figure. These kinds of entries don't always have enough due weight, but this done does. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 00:17, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Weak Exclude, I think an argument could be made if the ban of Twitter/X had its own article but it seems to be a small component of Brazils general issues with Elon Musk which is more fitting for 2024 in Brazil.

We currently don’t include India’s ban of TikTok in 2020 in spite of both India and TikTok being larger than Brazil and Twitter/X so it is hard for me to justify it here. PaulRKil (talk) 12:43, 4 September 2024 (UTC)

Include. It does seem notable, given Twitter's influence. Wjfox2005 (talk) 10:20, 5 September 2024 (UTC)

Inclusion of Israel-Hezbollah deadliest day

Weak exclude for me. This is in regards to event outlining the deadliest day of the Israel-Hezbollah conflict since 2006. I'm not disregarding the amount of lives lost, which is a tragedy, but it isn't exactly a novel thing unlike the pager explosions, offensive in Rafah, and preemptive strikes in Lebanon. It's part of the Israel-Hezbollah conflict, and the even more broad Israel-Arab conflict. It is for the same reason that the Burkina Faso attacks that killed 200 people was removed. I want to reiterate: I'm not disregarding the tragic loss of life, and am not dismissing it as NORMAL, like an editor accused me of. I am just merely questioning its validity here in the 2024 article. This has been a divisive topic and I'd appreciate input. Thanks.

Include. Nearly 600 killed, thousands injured, and 90,000 displaced in just two days. Countries around the world – including the US, Canada, France and Japan – urging their citizens to leave. 700 British troops will be deployed to Cyprus to handle these evacuations. Front page headlines across major news outlets, and clearly an escalation of tensions in the region, not something to be dismissed so easily. Wjfox2005 (talk) 14:43, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Include because it marks the beginning of major hostilities. For ongoing major armed conflicts, the beginning of major hostilities usually deserves mention. JohnAdams1800 (talk) 01:29, 29 September 2024 (UTC)